Driftmoon Adventure RPG

Pete 13 years ago

"Amarth" said:
It only takes six phases before you are absolutely sure.

So thats absolutely everyone on the planet then?

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speedblade 13 years ago

So... another game of anything, anyone?

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E_net4 13 years ago

I'm still in for the next game! Also, if it's going to be another quantum werewolf, I suggest Amarth to start saving some time to implement cupid links.

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MageKing17 13 years ago

"E_net4" said:
I'm still in for the next game! Also, if it's going to be another quantum werewolf, I suggest Amarth to start saving some time to implement cupid links.

Hell fuck no.

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Amarth 13 years ago

My thoughts about this werewolf game.

It kind of sucked.

I don't know if no-one wants to say it or if I'm the only one that thinks so. Yeah, it's funny when suddenly three people explode, but that's about it. Apart from that, it's randomness, no backstabbing, no hidden stuff, deterministic lynching policy. Hrmf.

I think this is a combination of two things. One, I haven't thrown away enough initial states. There was too much randomness during the entire game, which made it statistical instead of tactical. I think that, by day three, the probabilities should be pretty much settled, at the night after that definitely. So instead of throwing away 50% of initial states, maybe more something like 80 or 90%. More players might also help, though the game might drag on after that. Not sure about more roles. Maybe. There were 6 villagers this game (3 wolves, 1 seer), that would be boring in another game too I guess.

Second problem was that you all revealed your player numbers. What the hell? The only private information (except for seer visions which are semi-worthless 90% of the time) you have, you will give away? In a game of Werewolf? I guess this is another consequence of the game being too random, so that the only way to change things meaningfully is by revealing this or something? I don't know. It made the endgame deterministic instead of the hunt it should have been.

Some more small remarks on where I deviated from the rules:
I allowed wolf attack the first night. This might have had some impact on game balance. I think the wolves are pretty much at an advantage already: the probability for lynching a wolf only becomes 50% when most of the villagers are already dead! I'm not sure it's a valid reasoning, but it's what I noticed in this game and it seems another argument to jumble the probabilities around a bit more at the start. Maybe a way of selectively removing universes, instead of randomly, would be useful. This way, someone might start with, say, 80% evil.

I made wolf attacks non-mandatory. Not sure which I like more.

I revealed roles on death, instead of just good/evil. This was by choice. Not sure what my reasoning was. I think "maybe I should give them something to work with".

I'm still not sure on the seer rules. I don't know exactly where I was confused again, but it's really unclear at some points what exactly happens with seer visions.

I made a technical mistake in my program because I forgot to advance the time the first 2 days or so. I think I fixed it and no paradoxes were created. Tense moment when I discovered that though.

Maybe the beta wolf should kill if the alpha wolf didn’t provide a kill? The rules of course also say wolf kills are mandatory, so it's not clear what this should be.

I notified people when they couldn’t use a role anymore, as opposed to when they have only 1 role left. Because otherwise I still had to handle night actions that couldn't exist and probably my program would explode and meh.

Another thing: not sure the seer should show good/evil or a role. According to the rules it's good/evil but giving a role would make universes collapse faster, I guess, but probably only slightly.

So yeah, if you still want quantum werewolf I think I can make it more fun by making it more werewolf and less quantum (though still some uncertainty at the start), and I could try implementing more roles.

Also no inspiration for story. That kind of sucked. My thoughts about this werewolf game. It kind of sucked. I don't know if no-one wants to say it or if I'm the only one that thinks so. Yeah, it's funny when suddenly three people explode, but that's about it. Apart from that, it's randomness, no backstabbing, no hidden stuff, deterministic lynching policy. Hrmf. I think this is a combination of two things. One, I haven't thrown away enough initial states. There was too much randomness during the entire game, which made it statistical instead of tactical. I think that, by day three, the probabilities should be pretty much settled, at the night after that definitely. So instead of throwing away 50% of initial states, maybe more something like 80 or 90%. More players might also help, though the game might drag on after that. Not sure about more roles. Maybe. There were 6 villagers this game (3 wolves, 1 seer), that would be boring in another game too I guess. Second problem was that you all revealed your player numbers. What the hell? The only private information (except for seer visions which are semi-worthless 90% of the time) you have, you will give away? In a game of Werewolf? I guess this is another consequence of the game being too random, so that the only way to change things meaningfully is by revealing this or something? I don't know. It made the endgame deterministic instead of the hunt it should have been. Some more small remarks on where I deviated from the rules: I allowed wolf attack the first night. This might have had some impact on game balance. I think the wolves are pretty much at an advantage already: the probability for lynching a wolf only becomes 50% when most of the villagers are already dead! I'm not sure it's a valid reasoning, but it's what I noticed in this game and it seems another argument to jumble the probabilities around a bit more at the start. Maybe a way of selectively removing universes, instead of randomly, would be useful. This way, someone might start with, say, 80% evil. I made wolf attacks non-mandatory. Not sure which I like more. I revealed roles on death, instead of just good/evil. This was by choice. Not sure what my reasoning was. I think "maybe I should give them something to work with". I'm still not sure on the seer rules. I don't know exactly where I was confused again, but it's really unclear at some points what exactly happens with seer visions. I made a technical mistake in my program because I forgot to advance the time the first 2 days or so. I think I fixed it and no paradoxes were created. Tense moment when I discovered that though. Maybe the beta wolf should kill if the alpha wolf didn’t provide a kill? The rules of course also say wolf kills are mandatory, so it's not clear what this should be. I notified people when they couldn’t use a role anymore, as opposed to when they have only 1 role left. Because otherwise I still had to handle night actions that couldn't exist and probably my program would explode and meh. Another thing: not sure the seer should show good/evil or a role. According to the rules it's good/evil but giving a role would make universes collapse faster, I guess, but probably only slightly. So yeah, if you still want quantum werewolf I think I can make it more fun by making it more werewolf and less quantum (though still some uncertainty at the start), and I could try implementing more roles. Also no inspiration for story. That kind of sucked.

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MageKing17 13 years ago

"Amarth" said:
Second problem was that you all revealed your player numbers. What the hell? The only private information (except for seer visions which are semi-worthless 90% of the time) you have, you will give away? In a game of Werewolf?

There was literally no reason not to. We weren't even sure whose side we should be playing for (except when, near the end, my evil percentage hit 0, but otherwise, yeah), so why would we hide our player number when nobody else can learn anything more from it than you can?

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Amarth 13 years ago

Because, in the end when the percentages are clear, you might maybe not want others to know you are the wolf?

Again, it makes the whole game in a straightforward "lynch the one with the most evil percentage. Oops, next round it's me. Oh well, stupid game anyway." Yeah...

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E_net4 13 years ago

I read the whole thing and I seem to agree that we shouldn't have revealed our numbers. I had no choice in that time because I was being threatened by people whose numbers were already revealed, which seemed to be the "good" behaviour. Well... yes, we can have more quantum werewolf, but you should REALLY make it less random. More roles would also be fun.

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speedblade 13 years ago

I'll play!

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Murska 13 years ago

I'd play a new one. But I agree on the wolves having a large advantage: From what I've played, and I've played a lot of internet Werewolf, there should be 20-25% of wolves in a normal game with seer, baner, werewolves, devil and villagers. Devil is a werewolf seer. Three wolves made up almost a third of the players and they get an advantage in this game for being much harder to find initially.

Then again, there's the chance that a lucky lynch on someone with a 5% chance of being evil skews the numbers horribly on day one, but lucky breaks always screw the balance of a game, regardless of whether it's quantum or not.

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MageKing17 13 years ago

"Murska" said:
From what I've played, and I've played a lot of internet Werewolf, there should be 20-25% of wolves in a normal game with seer, baner, werewolves, devil and villagers. Devil is a werewolf seer.

So what's a "baner"?

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Murska 13 years ago

Guardian Angel in these games, I think? Protects from nightkills.

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Kario 13 years ago

As a side note to this how is it that in the codes i was never a ! when it was already revealed?

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E_net4 13 years ago

I'm not very keen of when you became an exclamation point.

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Endymion 13 years ago

I suspect the quantums had something to do with whatever it was.
Anyway when are we going to have WW10?I might be even willing to try being the host it if no one else wants.

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E_net4 13 years ago

Sure is a good time to start a new game. We just need a volunteer to become the game master.

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Amarth 13 years ago

Are we going to play an obscure variation?

Been thinking about nomic werewolf, I think Kevan Davis posted a ruleset somewhere...

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E_net4 13 years ago

A variation is ok, as long as we have enough people confirmed.

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Kario 13 years ago

i'm in i like wolves.
better not be like quantum werewolf

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Narvius 13 years ago

Nomic Werewolf, oh, YES.

Basically, NO RULES (except that there are standard werewolfes, day/night, night killings, and victory conditions).
Instead of lynching we make up rules and vote for them ("Bob is dead" also counts as a rule

).
Day lasts until three proposals are passed, GM can veto inappropiate or unfair proposals ("LET'S MAKE A DEVICE TO SEE ALL WEREWOLVES

" - "No." - "Stuped gaem :C"), and add his own ideas (mostly in favour of the wolves, in case things get too unfair for them). GM ideas don't count towards the three and are automatically passed without voting.
Everyone gets one vote per idea, votes are obviously boolean.

That's pretty much it. No extra roles, unless we invent them DURING play.

Proposed ideas must fit the theme and be worded as clearly as possible as to avoid ambiguity. If an ambiguous situation arises, GM decides.
Items, roles, locations, whatever. Everything can be added, if it makes sense in the given setting.
It is suggested to have a premade ruleset for items (only one item per person?, can items be given item?) and/or other "frameworks" as needed.

Examples:
Prison Cell
Imprisoning, an alternative to lynching. Imprisoned players count as dead for all intents and purposes (unless stated otherwise), but can be chosen to be released (at which point they, obviously, no longer count as dead). Both imprisoning and releasing count towards the three-proposals-per-day limit.

Handgun
Item.
Allows the owner to kill anyone, but has only one bullet. The receiver of the gun is chosen by voting. Killing with the gun doesn't count as proposal.

Thief
A random players gain the ability to steal items at night. Any stealed items are concealed (ie. invisible to all players), unless the GM decides otherwise. Using an item will usually reveal it (which pretty much reveals the player as a thief). If an item is too big or too noisy or too whatever to be realistically stolen, it cannot be stolen (decided by GM).
Can overlap with other roles, does not change the player's team.

...just don't make the setting TPoD.

I think this should be the standard variation played by us. :3

Also, in case it wasn't obvious, I'm in. Nomic Werewolf, oh, YES. Basically, NO RULES (except that there are standard werewolfes, day/night, night killings, and victory conditions). Instead of lynching we make up rules and vote for them ("Bob is dead" also counts as a rule :D). Day lasts until three proposals are passed, GM can veto inappropiate or unfair proposals ("LET'S MAKE A DEVICE TO SEE ALL WEREWOLVES :D:D:D" - "No." - "Stuped gaem :C"), and add his own ideas (mostly in favour of the wolves, in case things get too unfair for them). GM ideas don't count towards the three and are automatically passed without voting. Everyone gets one vote per idea, votes are obviously boolean. That's pretty much it. No extra roles, unless we invent them DURING play. Proposed ideas must fit the theme and be worded as clearly as possible as to avoid ambiguity. If an ambiguous situation arises, GM decides. Items, roles, locations, whatever. Everything can be added, if it makes sense in the given setting. It is suggested to have a premade ruleset for items (only one item per person?, can items be given item?) and/or other "frameworks" as needed. Examples: [b]Prison Cell[/b] Imprisoning, an alternative to lynching. Imprisoned players count as dead for all intents and purposes (unless stated otherwise), but can be chosen to be released (at which point they, obviously, no longer count as dead). Both imprisoning and releasing count towards the three-proposals-per-day limit. [b]Handgun[/b] Item. Allows the owner to kill anyone, but has only one bullet. The receiver of the gun is chosen by voting. Killing with the gun doesn't count as proposal. [b]Thief[/b] A random players gain the ability to steal items at night. Any stealed items are concealed (ie. invisible to all players), unless the GM decides otherwise. Using an item will usually reveal it (which pretty much reveals the player as a thief). If an item is too big or too noisy or too whatever to be realistically stolen, it cannot be stolen (decided by GM). Can overlap with other roles, does not change the player's team. [size=50]...just don't make the setting TPoD.[/size] I think this should be the standard variation played by us. :3 Also, in case it wasn't obvious, I'm in.

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MageKing17 13 years ago

"Narvius" said:
...just don't make the setting TPoD.

You're just saying that because a meaningful threat can't exist in a universe with Level 999 Tetra-Elemental Blast and Happy Love Time Destruction Beam. Except the one I made up in TPoD11 that survived a Level 999 Tetra-Elemental Blast, that is.

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Narvius 13 years ago

Actually, literally everything can happen in there and I'm afraid it might get out of hand. Quickly. Explosively. :3

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NeoGangster 13 years ago

Sounds fun, I'm in

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Amarth 13 years ago

Nomic WW needs a pretty good GM though. I'm willing to GM but there's probably a better one around, and I kinda want to play too.

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Narvius 13 years ago

I'd probably volunteer sooner or later, but not Nomic. My track record equals a total zero points of GM experience. Of any kind.

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Narvius 13 years ago

*pokes the people*

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E_net4 13 years ago

Fire the cannons at the people,
Fire the cannons at the people,
Fire the cannons at the people,
And take all their stuff!

... Huh, inb4PirateThemedWW.

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