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    Driftmoon subforum

    E_net4 15 years ago
    "Anne" said:
    "E_net4" said:
    So, how many feathers did you guys find?

    I'm a bit curious about this one as well. (I just hope you didn't keep the "cheat button" on all through the demo...)
    I would have never thought of... cheat button? Did not!

    I could only find 7 feathers myself.

    More issues I found: You can make the happy crab go away from the rocky beach by finding the right rock and moving it elsewhere. You can do the same for Paul if you move Rolf the turtle.

    And I managed to move 2 rocks to the tunnel: One of them was over the tunnel, the other one was underneath it.
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    "Venom31" said:
    A step aside... I'm testing the game. Is the save feature incomplete yet? I saved several times but all I got when loaded was empty inventory nameless ("player") hero. All what was saved is location, maybe also quests, don't know, I was too frustrated to check.

    Hmm... This sounds serious, as the save feature should be fully working. Can you tell me, what Windows version and language are you running? And can you find the Driftmoon save files? They should be under My Documents/Driftmoon in your user profile. If you can find them, I'd appreciate it if you could send the whole save folder to me (<!-- e --><a href="mailto:ville@monkkonen.net">ville@monkkonen.net</a><!-- e -->.


    @E_net4: The rock getting under the tunnel is a problem with my z-ordering. I'll have to do something about it sooner or later...
    #
    Venom31 15 years ago
    OK, I'm using Windows XP SP2 Russian (Build 2600 AFAIR). I'm sending the archived saves (hope you can open RAR ).

    *EDIT* As for that single crash - I've never experienced it there afterwards. I believe it was partially my fault . I was getting strange noises in headphones instead of background sounds in Driftmoon. I was also getting such noises in Notrium. That started after I reinstalled sound drivers (I tried to find latest ones), now I deleted them and installed usual ones - it's all perfect now. I'm still getting a HUGE panel of volume control - 14 positions (!)
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    Thanks! Strangely it seems to load the inventory and the name ok for me, so the saving itself seems to work. Do you see your name in the load game list, or is the name player there too?
    #
    E_net4 15 years ago
    Before I forget, Driftmoon seems to run just fine on Windows 7.
    #
    Vacuus 15 years ago
    Doesn't seem to work under wine though.

    Will start up fine, and creating a character works however as soon as you try to pick up anything (even just clicking on the light with the ring) it'll segfault. Backtrace mentions Audiere which I think is a sound API?

    Disabling the wine alsa driver means it wont start at all, crashing instantly.

    Here's the backtrace with wine-alsa disabled:
    Backtrace:
    =>0 0x00444374 in driftmoon (+0x44374) (0x0032fe1
      1 0x004f6461 in driftmoon (+0xf6461) (0x0032fea
      2 0x7ee107c4 start_process+0x54() in kernel32 (0x0032fee
      3 0x7efbb254 call_thread_func+0xc() in ntdll (0x0032fef
      4 0x7efbb460 call_thread_entry_point+0x70() in ntdll (0x0032ffc
      5 0x7ef97d6a in ntdll (+0x37d6a) (0x0032ffe


    And with alsa enabled, trying to pick something up:
    Backtrace:                                                                            
    =>0 0x0044575d in driftmoon (+0x4575d) (0x0420d6f0)                                   
      1 0x00000002 (0x0038e434)                                                           
      2 0x00336a00 in audiere (+0x6a00) (0x003419e0)                                      
      3 0xc20440ff (0x0424448b)


    I know the memory traces probably don't tell you much, but if you need any more info please ask.
    #
    Anonymous1157 15 years ago
    Autosaving would be nice. For the level set in the demo, saving after the teleport and after collecting each pet would be a good place to start. A quick-save key would be nice, too.

    Other than that, it works beautifully on XP64.
    #
    Endymion 15 years ago
    Played the preview(and voted). But anyways storing all the little notes and books in the inventory seems a little unnecessary some sort of logbook or own tab would be a better place for them.
    Being able to walk over the movable small stones like you can over the bed would seem more natural.
    Are your companions supposed to walk 10 meters behind you? It makes the firefly pretty useless and causes them to get stuck more often. Also near the end when I was fighting last skeletons from the doorway Velvet decided that since she can't go through me she'll walk under the wall so that all I saw was her tail before she miraculously appeared in front me. Also on island there were enemies in sea near the boat. Experience counter doesn't display properly for me it only updates on level up. Didn't notice any othe bugs. What does F12 do?
    Fireflowers will have some other use than bribing one little bug I hope. There is no other indication of hunger besides player saying so when he is hungry or is there? Also food supplies were quite plentiful not to mention regrowing but do they rot since that's the reason I was "given" canned food? Amount of daggers lying around was a bit surprising.
    Being able to scroll through dialog history like in Infinity engine games would be helpful. I'm very glad you can use numbers to reply I hate games where you can't.

    Story would start a lot better if it started in Driftmoon(unless earth or plane traveling will be more involved with the story) with player being together with his father or some other character and then being separated while escaping, being ship-wrecked, sent away because of the curse or just living and being part of the village until the curse or even being turned into statue until something causes the player to awaken would be better than just transporting to magical world out of nowhere for no real reason.
    ...now that I think about it playing Paul's role would probably make much more interesting story.

    It could also use a little more something I'm not really sure what lore perhaps. Most things just feel somehow unconnected and unclear(not to mention easy).
    Let's take meeting Paul for example:
    First I get mistaken for curse(So I guess that the portal(?) I came through can be accessed from where the curse is and using it is somehow prevented).
    So I assure that I'm not cursed (which he surprisingly believes and how would I know if I am cursed?)
    and introduce myself and tell that I was sent here by strange man to look for my father(I was under the impression that I knew this strange man but I guess not)
    he tells me I'm the baron's lost son(I disappeared? How? And that's all you need to know about me? so the only thing you care about is that I'm the baron's son and you couldn't care less about who I really am or what I want! I hate you!)
    and I'm too late for my father became mad and wants to stop the curse no matter what.(So I'm too late because he got mad or because he left to stop the curse? Can't be madness since it shouldn't prevent finding him. And is being mad and stopping curse somehow related? You'd think that if he was mad it'd prevent instead of help stopping the curse)
    So I ask about this awful curse that drove my father mad and Paul tells me that it's been around for a while and it makes nights dangerous(it sounds like the curse is bad only for those who aren't cursed and not even a hint about what could have caused it)
    He also says that he and baron came to the island 20 years ago(They didn't escape there or anything they only came there to spend time but he fails to mention what did the two of them do with all that time being alone in a deserted island with no other company.)
    Then he warns me not go after my father and that since were trapped in his fort it'll be safe(Did I ask where is my father or how do I find him? Also it seems I have absolutely no interest in returning back or knowing about or doing anything except finding my father. Also I'm confused am I able to get out or not?)
    Now I get to choose my excuse for finding that father of mine but there's no option of wanting to kill him for leaving me or wanting to just go back.
    Then what does he do! He doesn't assure me that he's very capable person and doesn't need help except maybe monetary instead he simply asks me how can he help! His warnings and assurances of my safety all forgotten!
    After that it gets pretty good except that telling about my father didn't have to wait so long.
    Overall I think it feels like it just has one sentence about topic and then moves on until you actually get to ask some questions and interact instead of NPC telling you whatever he wants.

    Other than that.
    I wanted to ask how he knows the baron.
    Surely there are some rumors, stories or guesses about the size of the world. It just feels a bit too brief.
    When he talks about wolves he isn't talking about ones on the island instead of Driftmoon is he?
    Asrald is a city with villagers?
    I hope those nightly monsters are actually something to worry about since being warned about things that pose barely any threat seems to be way too common in games.
    How does the curse spread? or does it? Can the player get cursed if he spends too many nights outside the monastery?
    Mainland? I thought there wasn't one...
    While losing your hat isn't unheard of or even that hard giving some excuse might be worth considering also did he forgot where he hid the entrance or why is it that he can't just tell me where the tunnel is.
    Will needing a key to the fortress play some role in future? Like not being able to come back to the fort after the curse reaches the island or something.
    I couldn't find anything called big bone where is it? It is different from your regular probably unusable in combat bone right?

    Well anyways so far very promising game.
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    Thanks Vacuus, I don't really know what could be causing it to crash in Wine. I'm going to drop Audiere anyway, so if it's that it might start working.

    Autosaving will definitely be there at some point. Saving in the game is pretty fast compared to most games, so it should be no problem putting a lot of save points around.

    @Endymion: Thanks for those pointers! I definitely agree with most of what you say, the other ones are minor polish things, but the plot is a bigger one. I will probably tweak it to some degree within the near future, and I'd definitely like to hear your ideas about it then. I'm probably going to keep the actual areas in the order they're now, but I will change why the player gets to Driftmoon at the very least - just being ordered there does seem like a cliche.
    #
    Venom31 15 years ago
    "ville" said:
    Thanks! Strangely it seems to load the inventory and the name ok for me, so the saving itself seems to work. Do you see your name in the load game list, or is the name player there too?
    Yeah, I see the "VenoM" as I named the character. However, he starts at the saved location all empty
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    So it seems to load much of the info from the file, but doesn't actually load your inventory on your computer. Could be a memory leak, I'll have to check this out. Thanks for your help!
    #
    Venom31 15 years ago
    You're welcome! And BTW, saves feel so much better in the game folder itself. I see a folder for "mainmod", that's great! I'm so tired using only those 10 (or whatever) slots for all Notrium mods, they get mixed...
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    Yeah, saves will be specific to the mod you're playing. I haven't decided yet how you will be selecting the active mod before starting the game, I guess there just has to be some button in the main menu for that, or maybe each mod will get to place a button there.
    #
    Vacuus 15 years ago
    Mount&Blade takes a very similar approach and uses a drop-down menu in a launcher that's started before the game.

    I suppose you could integrate that into the main menu somehow and just load respective saves/module data when clicking on "Load" or "New Game".

    I can also confirm that the wine crash bug is not due to my system - the exact same thing happens on my laptop. I know non-native OS compatibility might not be all that important, but it would be nice and would save me and others from buying windows as well as Driftmoon
    #
    MageKing17 15 years ago
    "ville" said:
    The editor will be even more powerful! Well, not much, but it wil be easier to use I hope. And I am planning on including the editor with the demo version when it's finished, so you'll get to use it even if you don't buy the whole version.
    Sounds like the way ZZT worked.
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    Now that is a nice game. You get A for your history.
    #
    MageKing17 15 years ago
    "ville" said:
    Now that is a nice game. You get A for your history.
    Thank my unconventional childhood which had me playing ZZT and Descent before I ever saw a first-person shooter.
    #
    Grim Reaper 15 years ago
    Whilst exploring outside the starting house, toggling torch on and off as I moved from light to shadow and vice versa, Driftmoon suddenly crashed. :\

    Oh, and is it possible to change the view from fullscreen to windowed? If not, are you planning on adding the functionality later?
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    I'm hoping it's crashing in the sound code, but we'll have to see to be sure.

    My plan is to have a settings screen with windowed setting as well. I usually play windowed when I'm developing, so it would definitely be good for modding.
    #
    Anarion 15 years ago
    I've noticed a couple of bugs that don't seem to have yet been mentioned.

    First: I noticed that whenever Velvet tried to walk through a number of movable objects the framerate dropped severely.

    And Second: A berry bush that was replaced by a flashing square. (It reappeared when I collected the berries from it.)
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    No other texture problems though? No other images were wrong anywhere?

    I hope the Velvet slowness is due to the pathfinding - if it is I think I've nailed it.
    #
    Anarion 15 years ago
    That was the only texture issue I noticed.
    #
    E_net4 15 years ago
    "Anarion" said:
    That was the only texture issue I noticed.
    I never had that issue. Perhaps the installation procedure failed at installing that specific texture or something.
    #
    Vacuus 15 years ago
    No, I had the same problem on another machine.

    Only seemed to happen after you picked the berries and clicked on them again though
    #
    Pete 15 years ago
    I get that too, and I spam right click while collecting berries, if that helps.
    #
    Anonymous1157 15 years ago
    I got it after collecting berries and coming back later. When I tried using the bush, it told me they "weren't ready for picking", IIRC. Thought I ought to mention that to help narrow down the problem.
    #
    Crazy 15 years ago
    So, i guess i'm somewhat of a latecomer, but i finally got around playing the preview.

    It was pretty freaking good.

    I can't say that it was the best game i've ever played, but i'd definately ENJOY playing a game like this for extended period of time, which is something i can't say of quite a few high-rated, sells-in-the-millions commercial games.

    The interface was wonderfully clean. I loved the different cursor icons and the entire presentation at the house was nothing else but extremely neat and professional. It really drew me in.

    And though i've also mention my gripe with the attack animations, the graphics were very nice. They were perhaps somewhat simple, but it's sort of how many bleeding age effects age rather quickly but properly made 8-bit or 16-bit games still look great - they have their own style.

    Now the combat never really became dull, but i can see it do so. The attack type system could be used as a force to do some really great stuff, but in this preview, i found the flies to be little more than annoying. I'm reminded of Daikatana, where the player must fight dragonflies and frogs. There isn't any feeling of accomplishment in swatting flies. Instad, it may be more interesting to be presented with a room filled with enemies. These enemies would have different attack type weaknesses, though all of these types are accessible by one weapon (beause changing weapons in combat is not fun). The player would be able to figure out strategies on how to best deal with the sitation. Also, different attack types could have different effects besides damage - in example, quickly swiping your rapier may get a group of turtle- or armadillo-like creatures to stand back, but only a proper stab will be accurate enough to cause reasonable damage.

    A sidenote - "slap" would perhaps be better named as "swat", unless you plan the attack to be able to interact with humans or include kinky sex scenes (where you could also use stabbing damage as a "thrus-- yeah, i'm going to stop talking now).

    The only thing i really found negative in the game was the story - the modern house and the steampunk-ish caves kept me intigued despite the rather dull dialogue (except for the "Your father is in danger!" "But i'm an orphan!" part, which was funny). Beyond that, i found it all to be rather stock. There were some interesting pieces put in there, such as the talking crab or the wishing well, but alltogether, i couldn't really tell if it was supposed to be a humourous thing like Discworld or Apprenctice or serious. In the first case, i could really only find one good joke, in the second, i could really only find it incredibly dull. I hope that what I saw in the preview will be improved on, if not completely changed later, as this is definately the area where the game could be improved the most. I did see that there were several paths to solving each problem or situation, which is GREAT and something that needs to be kept at. Here's an article from Shamus Young, which talks about something else, but intermittently also speaks of multiple solution problems (though i occasionally disagree with him, i think Shamus writes some pretty good stuff, always worth a read).

    However. Permanently giving up ability points as the only non-violent solution? Bad Ville!

    Overall, it was fun. If it were longer, i would find the presentation of the story dull. You have some great writers on this forum (though i'm mostly thinking of Mageking ATM), i think they might like to pitch in on occasion.

    EDIT: Here's another great article that i thought could be relevant.
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    Thanks Crazy! I agree with you on most points. The battles will definitely still need work, and improving the plot is the next thing on my todo list.

    The world is supposed to be semi-serious, the characters will not be funny on purpose, but I still want to include some light touches of fun.

    So, what's your non-violent suggestion for the wishing well spirit? I admit that the good solution for it is hastily thrown in as the deadline drew close.
    #
    Endymion 15 years ago
    "Crazy" said:

    However. Permanently giving up ability points as the only non-violent solution? Bad Ville!
    What? It shouldn't be too easy to always be the good guy. Also it makes for an very interesting decision trying to determine wheter it'd be worth it or not and if I even want to do it. Also there aren't that many other things that most players don't easily consider expendable so I can't imagine a better solution that wouldn't involve being permanently nerfed in some way.
    IMHO it was one of the best moments in the preview(it reminded me of Planescape;Torment). As for alternative ways I'd suggest having to give him a blackrock(or something else) that has been somehow made to steal it's carriers lifeforce until dropped(maybe by offering it for some undead spirit or by getting a goblin to curse it) which would temporarily prevent the barrier from receiving it.

    -2 constitution for an possibility of lengthy side-quest of helping him regain his wish fulfilling powers doesn't sound so bad. Not that killing him would necessarily prevent it from being done just increase the amount power to regain and dislike to overcome.
    #
    Crazy 15 years ago
    Endymion, i agree with you that the "light" path should not always be easy, but a choice between a violent, rather "evil" solution or permanently nerfing your character simply will not do.

    I've always found any permanent nerfs to be a really, really bad thing because it makes me feel like my character will not be able to stand against the trials ahead or that i will be taken away some choice later on because my character doesn't have enough ability points to do one of the actions. Velvet Assassin got a lot of flak for the experience gaining system, which consisted entirely of a hidden item search, not only beacuse it's kinda stupid, but also because it could cause permanent negative effects to the character (Shamus once againt speaking on the subject).

    Oh, by the way, a lot of people really hate hidden object games. Including me. But the silver feather thing really didn't irk me at all. Perhaps because there was no reward beyond bragging rights? Anyway, i can easily see this collecting game go awry, particularly in a setting with any linearity - i can't just go back to the house at the start to go find feathers. It worked pertty well in GTA, because the entire map, along with all of the collectibles was always open to you at all times. However, it could be pretty annoying to finish the game, really trying to collect all of the feathers and discover that you've missed two. As a solution - you could make them purely a bragging rights thing, never mentioning how many there are. Alternatively, you could make them really hard to find and make them offer something completely game-breaking as a reward, some extra fun for another playthrough. Either way, i think the purpose should be stated at the sart, so as to not keep players in the dark.

    Any way, the well spirit - there could either be a middle way, ie. "i want to do the right thing, but i'm not willing to sacrifice THAT" or giving those 2 consitution point would launch a sidequest/puzzle/brewing simulation where you try to help him regain his powers and in turn he grants you a wish: your 2 constitution back. Now, having the spirit grant the player wishes would, with great haste, bring up a "but why don't i just ask for a game win?" problem, which could be solved by making the wishing well spirit able to grant only small wishes and the 2 constitution back would be way above what he can usually do, but there is a "special bond" or somesuch so he can do it this once.

    Or, there might be a quick (quick!) item fetch quest for him or you might have to find a way the break some sort of seal holding him back through a puzzle or you might need to reroute water because the well is empty or might need to prove to him that you have a real need for getting through or you might find an alternative path or you might trick the spirit into letting you past or you might try to sneak past him or you might try to build a raft or something.
    #
    ville 15 years ago
    I myself usually never take a path which would lead to a permanent ability loss, maybe it's got something to do with how our minds work. Being good should not have a penalty, but it could mean more work if it's rewarded with more experience.

    I think your idea has merit, some kind of a quest to regain your abilities would do. This way the ability loss could be even more drastic, since you could get it back, but you would have to do the quest with your reduced abilities.
    #
    Narvius 15 years ago
    How about it giving you more skills than you paid? Would be a proper reward for a lengthy quest chain you have to do with reduces abilities.
    #
    Amarth 15 years ago
    "Crazy" said:
    Oh, by the way, a lot of people really hate hidden object games. Including me. But the silver feather thing really didn't irk me at all. Perhaps because there was no reward beyond bragging rights?
    There is a slight reward in the form of XP. IIRC, first feather gives 1 XP, second gives 2, etc. So finding a few feathers doesn't really matter, but if you get them nearly all, you'll benefit from the last few. Although by the time it doesn't matter perhaps. Who'll tell.
    #
    Anne 15 years ago
    I think you made some solid, good suggestions in the previous posts, Crazy & Endymion, for example regarding the Spirit of the well. I agree, that the loss of constitution without a real alternative gain from the choise, is not a good thing. It would be slightly better, if you would at least acquire something from the choise (gain +1 in another skill at the very least). A side quest or such would be more fun, though. Many of the other points brought up by you and previous posters are well worth considering&implementing, as well.

    But then, I also have a few IMPORTANT QUESTIONS to all the forumers about the overall contents at the moments: There is already fun things to do in the preview, but I think the game would benefit from a bit more things to do/find and/or quests to finish. At this point, though, I've already done so much testing with much older versions of D, that all of you are much better at judging these questions:
    1) What are your views on how much more content the demo should have?
    2) What kind of content would you like more of (things to find /quests / characters / enemies)?
    3) Which parts of the demo (or things in the demo) were your favourites, and which need something extra?

    (This is also helpful for designing the rest of the game, since we will of course try to keep the same high standards through-out the adventure )
    #
    E_net4 15 years ago
    "Anne" said:
    I agree, that the loss of constitution without a real alternative gain from the choise, is not a good thing. It would be slightly better, if you would at least acquire something from the choise (gain +1 in another skill at the very least).
    Such a gain wouldn't fit in the story, unless you are passively rewarded with that or an item after you spend your skill points.
    In addition, I do not agree with the permanent loss of skill points. There is no sense that the player becomes weaker by giving away a few drops of blood. That blood should just restore itself naturally, IMO. In Castle of the Winds, all attributes have a real value and a maximum value. When the player is affected by spells, traps or enemies, the real value changes. Real attributes lower than the character's maximum could be restored in a temple, for a monetary price. You now have my point.
    "Anne" said:
    A side quest or such would be more fun, though. Many of the other points brought up by you and previous posters are well worth considering&implementing, as well.
    Side quests are a must-have for an RPG. Enough said.
    "Anne" said:
    1) What are your views on how much more content the demo should have?
    2) What kind of content would you like more of (things to find /quests / characters / enemies)?
    3) Which parts of the demo (or things in the demo) were your favourites, and which need something extra?
    1) The preview is decent for a demo. I'm running out of words.
    2) More different enemy types and classes. By classes I mean {NightWolf, Crippled Wolf, etc.}. How about different flies... or wasps?
    3) I liked dragging Rolf around and making Paul follow it.
    What I disliked was being able to go against Velvet. Plus, some friendly characters shouldn't die.
    #
    Forum » Driftmoon subforum
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