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    Nomic

    Idiota 16 years ago
    I vote no on E_net's proposal because we already have the point system and he voted no on my proposal.
    #
    E_net4 16 years ago
    I was about to add another rule to the set now: When only one player has more than 0 HP, the game ends. Then the HP are added to the survivor's points. The player with the most points wins.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    We had a bit of a discussion in IRC. Basically, rule 2 is ambiguous, and can be interpreted as being allowed multiple proposals on each turn. This was not my intended effect, and most people got what I meant. I meant to say that every person can do ONE proposal each turn, but that proposal can consist of a set of additions and changes. Not that you can do a set of proposals.

    However, since we all love chaos and madness... And since the rules don't quite forbid us from doing so... I say (and Murska agrees with me, as, I think Shingo and E do) we can do multiple proposals each turn.

    However, keeping rule 6 in mind, my first extra proposal will be:
    Change rule 2 to "Each turn, each player has the right to done AT MOST ONE proposal, consisting of a set of changes and additions to the rules."
    And I seriously hope everyone got the point now. The bot can't quite handle this, but whatever. If you want to, I'll post some SQL magic to check out the proposals, and I'll change him on Friday to handle the situation correctly.

    Logically, this means everyone can now do a shitload of proposals. Go wild. Remember rule 4.
    #
    Grim Reaper 16 years ago
    I vote YES on Amarth's new proposal.
    #
    E_net4 16 years ago
    Huh, grim... This is an odd day of the month.
    #
    Grim Reaper 16 years ago
    Oh, silly me, trying to vote on an odd day. Whoops. Gonna do that tomorrow, then.
    #
    MageKing17 16 years ago
    It's now 00:20 GMT on February 14th, so I vote Yes on Amarth's new proposal.
    #
    Murska 16 years ago
    "MageKing17" said:
    It's now 00:20 GMT on February 14th, so I vote Yes on Amarth's new proposal.


    I mimic your behaviour.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    Okay. I've got votes to catch up with.

    Idiota: Yes
    Nuk: Yes
    Murska: Yes (though I have a bit of a bad feeling about this)
    MK: Yes (but I'd like to see other victory conditions, too)
    E_net4's first: Yes
    E_net4's second: Hmmm. I'm not sure about this one. Oh well, more complex rules = more fun. Yes.
    #
    Murska 16 years ago
    I propose that everyone who wants to join the game can, unless other rules state otherwise, and new players have 100hp and 0 points.

    I also suggest that we make up a rule to drop inactive players.
    #
    Grim Reaper 16 years ago
    "Grim Reaper" said:
    I vote YES on Amarth's new proposal.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    I vote yes on Murska's second proposal.

    I suggest someone proposes something about how to handle unclear proposals. We had some thoughts about that yesterday in IRC, but I don't quite remember them. So, someone?

    Also, Shingo? Where the f are you hanging out?
    #
    E_net4 16 years ago
    Here are what I assume to be my last vote:

    Amarth (2): YES. I admit we should avoid chaos. :P
    #
    MageKing17 16 years ago
    I propose that if a proposal is demonstrably unclear (though that phrase is, technically, itself unclear ), it not be enacted unless it's author clarifies it before the turn in which it was proposed ends.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    I vote NO on that, just for kicks. It can't pass anyway since voting ends in a few minutes.
    #
    Idiota 16 years ago
    Ok, don't have much time left, but:
    I vote 'yes' to all proposals I haven't voted on yet.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    Overview of this turn.

    Accepted proposals:
    Amarth: Every player will have hitpoints (HP). Initial HP is set at 100 for everyone, this is also the maximum number of HP. At the start of every turn, each player gains 10 HP, with a maximum of 100 HP.
    Votes and proposals of players with 0 or less HP do not count. Also, when rolling the die for points, the results are multiplied by your HP percentage.
    Where you could get 1d6 points before, you can now gain (1d6)*HP/100 points, rounded down, with a lower bound of 0 (so that you don't lose points if you have a negative amount of HP). Once again, this only happens if you DO roll a die.
    Also change the rule about rolling the die ( rule 8 ) to name the bot and not restrict it to IRC.
    Passed with 4-0.

    Murska: If your proposal fails, you lose 20hp
    Passed with 3-1.

    MageKing17: Anyone who has an HP of 0 or less for two turns (as in, their HP started at or below 0 on the first turn and never rose above by the end of the second) is removed from the game, and if only one person with HP remains, they are victorious.
    Passed with 4-1.

    Amarth: Change rule 2 to "Each turn, each player has the right to done AT MOST ONE proposal, consisting of a set of changes and additions to the rules."
    Passed with 5-0

    There were 2 rejected proposals and 4 proposals with not enough votes to decide.

    Dice rolls:
    Murska: 1
    Idiota: 5
    MageKing: 3
    Nuk: 3
    Amarth: 4
    E_net4: 3

    Updating first post. Next turn at 00:01 GMT.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    Proposal tiemz:

    Everyone who is inactive for an entire turn loses 60 HP. You are considered active if you post in this thread or make a dice roll.
    #
    Grim Reaper 16 years ago
    "Amarth" said:
    Proposal tiemz:

    Everyone who is inactive for an entire turn loses 60 HP. You are considered active if you post in this thread or make a dice roll.
    Vote = very yes
    #
    E_net4 16 years ago
    Here's my proposal: Everyone who is active regenerates 2 HP each turn.

    I find this rule reasonable. If not, the regeneration value can be changed.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    "E_net4" said:
    Here's my proposal: Everyone who is active regenerates 2 HP each turn.
    Would this remove or stack with the 10HP regeneration we currently have? (part of rule 4.1)
    #
    E_net4 16 years ago
    Ow, shoot. I should have re-read the rules.
    Well, since I can't remove or modify this rule any longer, and this was supposed to be a new rule, then let it be assumed that regeneration value is changed to 12 HP.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    Well, there'd still be a distinction between 10HP for inactive and 12HP for active. Small difference, though.
    #
    MageKing17 16 years ago
    Especially considering inactive players lose 60 HP, so increasing active player regeneration is largely meaningless.
    #
    Idiota 16 years ago
    Votes: Yes to Amarth, No to E_net4 (nothing personal, just voted no to ya 3 turns in a row... >.>
    Proposal: Per 10 points your hp is raised above 100, you will gan 1 point to your score.
    #
    Grim Reaper 16 years ago
    "Idiota" said:
    Proposal: Per 10 points your hp is raised above 100, you will gan 1 point to your score.
    Would that be calculated at the beginning/end of each turn, or...?
    #
    Idiota 16 years ago
    Change the proposal to: At the end of each turn, per every 10 hp above 100 will be converted to 1 point. This is how I had meant it to be interpreted.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    I'm still not entirely sure on the order of things here. Do you propose something like:
    1] clock strikes 00:00 Friday, so, end of turn
    2] calculate votes and passes proposals
    3] add floor((100 - HP) / 10) points to the score of each player
    4] HP gets reset to 100 if above
    5] ... time passes ...
    6] clock strikes 00:00 Saturday, new turn starts, new rules apply from now on
    7] everyone gains 10 HP (by rule 4.1)
    8] turn proceeds, time passes, go to step 1.

    Currently, the 100HP maximum implies (or that's how I see it anyway) that HP can never rise above 100, which kind of contradicts your rule. With the ordering as above, that would change, but people would (excluding any HP loss) have 110 HP during the turn. However, that involves changing the rule of the HP cap. Another possibility (if you don't want 110 HP during the day) is to move the "add 10 HP" step between 1 and 2 or between 2 and 3 (and yes, that makes a difference... A big one)

    We might have to clearly define different phases for starting and ending turns, because I can easily see loads of rules about adding and subtracting points and HP and stuff, but the order of things could be important (like, adding HP before calculating votes would make a difference for someone with -5 HP).

    So, I guess it's up to you to say what you want here
    #
    MageKing17 16 years ago
    "Amarth" said:
    I'm still not entirely sure on the order of things here. Do you propose something like:
    1] clock strikes 00:00 Friday, so, end of turn
    2] calculate votes and passes proposals
    3] add floor((100 - HP) / 10) points to the score of each player
    4] HP gets reset to 100 if above
    5] ... time passes ...
    6] clock strikes 00:00 Saturday, new turn starts, new rules apply from now on
    7] everyone gains 10 HP (by rule 4.1)
    8] turn proceeds, time passes, go to step 1.

    Currently, the 100HP maximum implies (or that's how I see it anyway) that HP can never rise above 100, which kind of contradicts your rule. With the ordering as above, that would change, but people would (excluding any HP loss) have 110 HP during the turn. However, that involves changing the rule of the HP cap. Another possibility (if you don't want 110 HP during the day) is to move the "add 10 HP" step between 1 and 2 or between 2 and 3 (and yes, that makes a difference... A big one)

    We might have to clearly define different phases for starting and ending turns, because I can easily see loads of rules about adding and subtracting points and HP and stuff, but the order of things could be important (like, adding HP before calculating votes would make a difference for someone with -5 HP).

    So, I guess it's up to you to say what you want here
    I'd say between 2 and 3, so a proposal can modify it and be taken into effect immediately.

    Yes to Amarth, No to E_net4.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    "MageKing17" said:
    I'd say between 2 and 3, so a proposal can modify it and be taken into effect immediately.
    I guess I wasn't really clear there. New rules only go into effect at the start of the next turn, step 6 in the scheme above. At the end of the turn, it is decided which proposals pass, at the start of the next turn, they are enforced. This is as per rule 1.3.
    #
    Idiota 16 years ago
    Well, my intention was that if a person gained an amount of hp, and his or her hp was already at the hp cap, then the 1/10 points would be added to the score pool, rounded down. (i.e. you can't gain 0.9 points)
    #
    E_net4 16 years ago
    Amarth: Yes. I should learn from your proposals.
    Idiota: No.
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    "Idiota" said:
    Well, my intention was that if a person gained an amount of hp, and his or her hp was already at the hp cap, then the 1/10 points would be added to the score pool, rounded down. (i.e. you can't gain 0.9 points)
    Every time you gain HP? Or only at the end of the round?

    Like, during the round, if I gain 3, 5 and 2 HP on separate occasions, would I gain 1 or 0 points?

    Making rules is a complex project, it seems.
    #
    Idiota 16 years ago
    This is the reason why I never considered starting a study of anything law-related. I suck at formulating what I mean... :p

    ANYWAY,

    At the start of each turn, after enforcing any other hp-altering laws, per every 10 hp above 100, 10 hp will be converted to 1 point to be added to your total amount of points. This amount is rounded down, you can only gain whole points, or no points at all.

    If it's still unclear what I meant to say, I am dropping out of the game
    #
    Amarth 16 years ago
    Hey, don't take it personal. I'm just trying to avoid any confusion. Unclear border cases can easily break a game, and they WILL happen sooner or later. You don't want people having different opinions when it's too late. Remember the first time you heard the line "yes-I-can-do-that-it's-called-en-passant-go-consult-a-rulebook"

    Anyway. No to E_net4's proposal. I'm sorry, it just doesn't add something new.

    Going to wait with Idiota's. Might vote yes if we might be able to finally do something with the points, otherwise I'll just vote no to annoy Idiota a bit more. We'll see in two days.

    Suggesting someone makes a proposal that encourages people to post proposals. Currently, there's no reason why you should create a proposal except for pushing your own agenda, which doesn't seem to be happening anyway.
    #
    Forum » Nomic
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