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Werewolf 10 - LR

E_net4 12 years ago

I just re-read the logs of WW 10. It was slightly amusing. Now I even wonder how the LR variant would have been if the wolves were not acknowledged of the other wolves. The obvious problem would be wolves killing other wolves, but that can be fixed by making werewolves immune to night attacks. This would also give werewolves a clue on who's a werewolf and who isn't based on the night actions they made.
But really, I guess we're done with the LR concept. Let's try something else!
Edited 12 years ago

Endymion 12 years ago

I'm up for whatever it is that we decide to do.

Grim Reaper 12 years ago

Quite possibly up for shenanigans as well.

SpeedBlade 12 years ago

And finally, the chance to rise with curtains again arose.

I still haven't seen Crazy comment on the LR endgame. :/

Grim Reaper 12 years ago

SpeedBlade said:
And finally, the chance to rise with curtains again arose.

I still haven't seen Crazy comment on the LR endgame. :/

Seems like he forgot this place exists... again.

Kario 12 years ago

I'm in! Wherever this place is...Where are we again?

E_net4 12 years ago

Bump!

E_net4 12 years ago

Rebump. Can we get some forum game going now?

Endymion 12 years ago

I hope so.

Amarth 12 years ago

Going with the physicsy themes of late... Timetravel Werewolf?

It would be kinda like normal werewolf, except everyone has the power to go back in time and change their decisions. This would be limited a lot though, to prevent the game from never ending. Maybe it should even be possible to go forward in time, but I don't know if there's any tactical help from that.

I still need to think it through, but I think it should be possible to do.. Maybe.. I hope.. Might be hard to balance too.. But hey. What do you think?

Grim Reaper 12 years ago

Sounds interesting, at the very least.

E_net4 12 years ago

Grim Reaper said:
Sounds interesting, at the very least.

Just that. We totally need to try it, considering even the several variants we've tried out so far.
Edited 12 years ago

E_net4 12 years ago

We might grab more attention if we create a new WW discussion thread. What say ye?

SpeedBlade 12 years ago

Meh, I'm just waiting for something to start...

E_net4 12 years ago

But see, we haven't even discussed about the WW mode we're going to play. Amarth's suggestion was pretty nice, and he probably made it sufficiently flawless to play. Amarth?

Amarth 12 years ago

Err! I haven't thought the time-travel game through yet. Don't see it being impossible though, will think about it some more.

Another possibility I've just thought of is to unlink players being dead and having their powers. So it would be possible to burn down, say, Grim's house, and if he was the Seer he wouldn't be able to do the scanning thing anymore, but no-one would know the Seer can't do stuff anymore, and Grim would still be able to vote. This sounds like it could really upset the balance though, hmm.

E_net4 12 years ago

Uh, so each member would have a house and burning it would drain one's powers? I don't find that so interesting, especially since most powers are good (against the werewolves I mean).
On the other hand, we are missing many interesting mechanics:
- Items. Randomly given, with a particular effect and a fixed number of uses (usually one). Could also be offered to other players.
- Communicating with the dead. But it's hard to be handled.
- Resurrection. With a possible change of alignment to the target. Seems too complicated to me.
- There also seem to exist variants where the narrator is reassigned to the first death, making the game (I lost) suck less for the victim.
- We also haven't tried roles that must be kept alive for all the remaining villagers to live. Let's say Barman: if he's killed, the villagers will starve in 3 days.
- A special villager that can truthfully reveal itself to anyone at night (with a common night action). This character could be merged to the barman, making the identity revelation more dangerous.
- Imprisoning: an alternative to lynching, but there are many possible ways to imprison/kidnap and free the players.

If I were to try any of these, it would be the items: invulnerability potion (preventing death for one night), a badge of confidence (or whatever you wish to call it, would double the user's vote value) and perhaps a poisonous liquid. In fact, how awesome would it be if the potion's properties were not revealed during an offer? Imagine deceiving someone with a poisonous drink by making him believe it's an invulnerability potion.

MageKing17 12 years ago

You forgot the most important item: self-destructing lightsaber!

E_net4 12 years ago

Indeed! And now that I think of it, we can convert some previous roles into items that can be shared. Imagine the self-destructing lightsaber giving the CWV power to anyone who has it. Or a gun with a single bullet for the Vigilante's skill. Perhaps even a cupid bow. These are all one-time uses, passive or not, so they can be easily converted to items.
Indeed, we should try an item-oriented WW.

Edited 12 years ago

Amarth 12 years ago

I don't see the real difference with items, except for storytelling purpose? Aren't they just like roles, except maybe one-off, that you can give away? Except you would never give them away because what is the advantage of giving power to another person?

The poisonous drink idea, I could get behind, but not sure how it would work. You'd know about your own item, and maybe there could be a role that would be able to identify items? Might be interesting.

And maybe the town also has to manage a finite pool of items.

Hmm.

E_net4 12 years ago

Storytelling? Rather. It's also a change from the usual "stay in your role and that's it" mechanic. You never know when you'd wish to offer items, anyway. A seer'd villager could have a potion that he could hand over to the Seer.

Actually, my initial plan was for the initial bearer of the potion to know its identity right on the start. BUT, it wouldn't be revealed when offered. And now that you think of it, an item identifier doesn't sound too bad. The only issue is having to possess the items in order to identify them.

What it comes to potions, we should allow drinking it or injecting it to another player at night.

A pool of items, you say? How would we manage that?

Amarth 12 years ago

I'm still not sure you'd ever want to hand over potions. Why would I want another player (of whom I'm not sure what his alignment is) to have a certain power I could keep for myself? I'm in this game to win myself, not to let other people win.

Force-feeding potions, mmmyeah. Depends on the contents of the potions, I guess. But I'd err on the side of allowing it, even encouraging it.

Pool of items would be managed by voting I guess? Kinda like "I want the potion of invulnerability to go to me so I can use it tonight, is that okay for everyone?" Maybe that would be too much overhead though - another vote for something that is rarely going to work out. The items pool would become smaller or different each day, encouraging usage? Maybe some roles could interfere with the item pool by stealing items from it, or replacing items with others. It might add another layer of the game the wolves want to get control over.

MageKing17 12 years ago

Amarth said:
I'm still not sure you'd ever want to hand over potions. Why would I want another player (of whom I'm not sure what his alignment is) to have a certain power I could keep for myself? I'm in this game to win myself, not to let other people win.

"I'm the Seer, and I scanned you; I know you're the Doppelganger. If you copy me, we'll be able to scan twice as many people each night. I've already identified Bob as a Wolf, but I think he may suspect me; do you have any items that could help?"
"Here, take this invulnerability potion."
"Thanks! I... hurk! Gak! This is poison! Damn you...!"
"Mwa-ha-ha-ha! The Cupid linked me and Bob together! Now we will rule the UNIVERSE! MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!"

...Ahem. Sorry, got a bit carried away there.

Amarth 12 years ago

Yeah, I thought about it. If the only reason I'd want to give potions away is to hurt other people, that's not suspicious at all...

And if there's the ability to inject your potions on others, that makes even less sense. The only thing I can still think about is giving potions so the other person can pass them further on, so confusing the trace of causality to you. I don't think that's going to happen for real.

Still, the option could be there, players will never fail to amaze..

E_net4 12 years ago

Honestly, we never know what could happen until we try it. I also had some thought on LR before making it happen, yet it didn't go as nicely as intended.
So we'd have an invulnerability potion, a poison, a... self-destructing lightsaber and a one-bullet gun. And maybe a cupid bow. We could have a thief that could steal one item from a player at night, and perhaps an identifier. What if we also have an alchemist, with a random chance of creating potions?
Edited 12 years ago

MageKing17 12 years ago

E_net4 said:
What if we also have an alchemist, with a random chance of creating potions?

Definitely need something like this; items are best when new ones can be created, even if it's random. Maybe, given the rather rapid time-frame of the game, it should randomly select one of "nothing", "poison", and "invulnerability"; I wouldn't want a greater than 33% chance of getting nothing. In fact, perhaps we should add more potion types that only the Alchemist can produce, like a Potion of Clairvoyance (gives you seer powers for one night), or a Potion of Identification (allows you to identify one other item). Then again, perhaps that would be better as the classic Scroll of Identify, and we add a Scrollmaker to our list of characters. A Scroll of Warding, for instance, could shield against a single night-kill, but provide no protection at all from dying during the day; a Scroll of Summoning could steal an item from another character at random; a Potion/Scroll of Persuasion could make your votes count double for one day.

Just tossing out ideas, here.

Amarth 12 years ago

Not a fan of randomness once the game has started. I was thinking about adding random items every day in some fashion, but I don't think it's a good idea. The tension of the game is there because people are actively hiding information. If there's information that no-one has, it turns into a bit of a lottery you have to complain about if it's not what you wanted. Maybe also see Quantum Werewolf, although the probabilities were workable there, and it was kind of the main feature of the game.

Creation of items could be non-random, though, and I was definitely considering that.

I think I'm going to go with a load of possible items, some of which everyone knows the effects of, some of which some people do, a few ways of identification, a few ways of creation, etc. Items could be passed around and used at almost all times, and it would be possible to put items in the village storage and take them from it (in some non-game breaking way - probably once a day with voting approval). I'm still thinking about an incentive to make the villagers pass items around - maybe they'll just need to do so to have any chance at survival.

This could turn in a rather different game though.

E_net4 12 years ago

Nike slogan.
You should totally create a new topic now.

MageKing17 12 years ago

Amarth said:
I'm still thinking about an incentive to make the villagers pass items around - maybe they'll just need to do so to have any chance at survival.

I really don't think an incentive will be needed; it will just become a part of regular strategizing. If a team forms (Seer scans someone as clean, someone deduces someone else is non-hostile, the Cupid links two people), they'll need to pass items between each other because e.g. a Scroll of Warding would do no good if it wasn't on the player actually likely to be attacked (assuming we had an item like a Scroll of Warding, of course). Similarly, if a player had an item that allowed another player to perform a kill (one-shot pistol, self-destructing lightsaber, whatever), they might need to pass it to someone else so that the death wouldn't be traced to them. If an Alchemist hoarded all their potions, it might give their role away; things like that.

E_net4 12 years ago

And what would the Identifier know in each scan? There are several possibilities: one of the items ; all items ; the number of items and one item at random.

E_net4 12 years ago

Just bumping this here because I imagined having a cupid bow + arrow item. Once used, the cupid bow alone could work as evidence. It can also be deceiving, if the bow is passed around.

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